The Simplicity of Faith - Leslie Ann Reams (#009)

In this episode, Leslie Ann Reams shares her journey to find happiness.  After completing several personal development programs, she found herself still feeling unfulfilled.  The problem was there wasn't anything really "wrong" so she didn't feel compelled to "fix" anything.  One day, her son's girlfriend invited her to Church and the rest is history.

Originally born and raised in the Midwest, Leslie Ann traveled the world, lived abroad, and for decades led an affluent life.  A sudden life change forced her to start from scratch, having to learn basic finances to survive while struggling to raise two teen boys: one in trouble with the law, the other with addiction. 

After investing thousands in various personal development courses and delving into different spiritual practices, Leslie Ann found herself only temporarily fulfilled, finding that only another course could bring back that sense of happiness. It was only when she turned her gaze upward that EVERYTHING fell into place. This newfound conviction became her guiding light, giving her everything she could ever ask for and more all with grace and ease!  Leslie Ann's journey reminds us that sometimes, the answers we seek are found above.

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Transcript

Erin Currin: 2:22

I really resonated with that. So why don't you share how your story unfolded? And then we'll go from there.

Leslie Ann Reams: 2:30

Absolutely. So as you had mentioned, in my bio, I grew up in the Midwest, and you know, there we had is the Bible Belt, honestly and my parents were very quickly drawn in as I was older as I was an older, ready to launch from the home into Christianity, and I basically ran the other way. I'm like, I'm out. This is crazy. You guys are crazy. I'm done. Needless to say, I married you know somebody from a different country. We moved abroad and I began my life. And it wasn't until you know 2020 That we moved back to the United States. And it was no I'm sorry, in 2000 Holy cow. It's been that long. But yes, that that we moved back to United States. I've been in Miami for a good 24 years almost. And just had so many different life experiences traveled. So you know, I did, did the whole family thing lived a very, very affluent life that was comfortable. And where I had a husband who pretty much was in charge of everything that we did all our finances, all of our you know, excursions, just whatever and it was very comfortable. Fast forward to 1997 and we decided to get a divorce and by that time my boys were obviously going starting to go through a difficult phase as I was adjusting and, and learning how to you know manage life without this partner. And needless to say, you know, with him having an MBA in international finance and really took over that side of our life. I had to just start from scratch which was which was very daunting. So I jumped right into personal development and started out with you know, different courses and I just one right after the other and it was it kind of filled the gap while I was in the course and while I was practicing these things, but at the same time it was It wasn't you know, it really didn't give me the fulfillment that I was looking for. It always took something more another course another program another okay we try to be a coach, let me try to, you know, do this

Unknown: 4:51

leadership program, while

Leslie Ann Reams: 4:54

all of them definitely were valuable it it was it's almost like going to a rock concert. And then when you you know you're say like you're at a three day rock concert, and then Monday comes along and you're just you're on such a high for such a long time for three days straight. Monday comes in you crash you basically crash and it's it's like okay, what am I? How can I get this back? So leads us to say that was 1000s and 1000s of dollars later and in my son's even did um, and as you had mentioned, you know, I had one son that was ramping up got in trouble with the law a couple of times. And so I put I put him into personal development, and it made a difference it did it made a difference for him at that stage of his life. Fast forward to you know, 1010 years later, he was also experiencing the same thing that I had, that he would you know, he did Tony Robbins he did all these different courses that were a value, great value and it made a difference that time but it was still something missing. And I think that you know where we all are as human beings is we all have this need. We all have this empty spot that what I found and millions of other people around the world is faith is looking to God to for these answers and and quite honestly my life has never, never been better. It has never been I've never had so much joy in my life. I was always pursuing happiness and you know, that's just a myth. Really. It's really about joy and the joy that comes from knowing knowing or God

Erin Currin: 6:46

that's really powerful. So it sounds so simple. And yet it's not. It is absolutely not a simple process because if it were that simple, then I think that there will be a lot less people that would be trying to argue that all you need is logic and all you need is rational thought and all you need is critical thinking and if we can all just get that stuff in order like Sam Harris is a big proponent of a real rational kind of, of world and Jordan Peterson being somebody that he has debated is the polar opposite. And when people ask Jordan if he if he believes in God, he says, Well, I don't really know how to answer that. I just act as if God exists. It's how do you well first of all, how did you come to get that faith was what was missing?

Leslie Ann Reams: 7:54

Well, I'd like to step back just one because when the first point that you made is it seems so simple. It really is and and I did do all of the logical and I did all the you know, I read so many books that I followed so many different different mentors and and it really came down to a simple, it went from the head because that's very, you know, being logical and being able to rationalize and being able to create in our minds and to manifest and all that happens here, right. However, when I really took hold of my relationship pursuing a relationship with God, it was in my heart entirely. And it was just it was like, it was like like a light went on. It was it was a different or like something had been removed from my view that I didn't realize was obstructing everything that I saw. And the way I the way I approach life. The way I talk to people, and it was in a blink of an eye. It was that simple. Honestly,

Erin Currin: 9:06

I can get that it is that simple. And what the question that I ask is, if you had been running away and resisting before then what had you turn to that? Yes, yes.

Leslie Ann Reams: 9:21

Well, I am of the belief as many Christians that God is always pursuing us, always pursuing his children. We are all God's creation. And it should for me personally, it was just a matter of time. Because I wasn't in a really low spot in my life. I really wasn't. I was like, This is good. I like where I'm at. I'm living where I want to live. I live in Miami Beach. You know, I've created this I've created that I have a job. I'm real. I'm supporting myself for the first time in my life. I taught myself you know everything about finances I've taken courses. However when when it when it really when I became convicted. It was it was just like it was there all along. It was there all along and and it was just so beautiful and simple. And it and I heard about Jesus a million times and you know, it's like, okay, I get it. I get it. I understand. I understand that. You know a lot of religions when he was a prophet, a lot of people say you know, change the world. He was the one man that totally changed the world in a way that yes, I get it. However, when it would when I finally professed with my words and was convicted in my heart. I was literally a new creation and experience joy that I couldn't explain. I couldn't even put into words and it was It wasn't something that I needed to pay for. It wasn't something that I needed to pursue. It was something that just came to me. And, you know, it's always knocking on the door one way or the other. And sometimes he uses difficult situations to get, you know, our attention and that happens for a lot of people. A lot of people will be in the worst place of their life and that's the last thing they do is they decide to reach to God. However, that wasn't my case. I was I was satisfied However, I did not realize how much I how much anxiety I have dealt with how much you know, kind of dipped in and out of depression since my divorce. And how you know, that took a hold of me a few years quite a few years ago. And I didn't realize how much I complained about things until until until that conviction of the heart and honestly it was like it's like a veil. I know it's maybe a cliche, and I hear I've heard that several times before. It's like a veil is removed. And in my family's lives changed everybody. Everything about my life changed from that moment. At the time I had had a job that that was working for me but I What wasn't getting paid what I wanted. I wasn't you know, had a lot of complaints about it. And I turned to prayer and I was blown away when I effortlessly. I didn't even have to pursue a job I didn't have to pursue. It just kind of fell in my lap and it was the most effortless and most beautiful and it was exactly the amount of pay that I wanted and it was a lot higher than I was making. And before long I kept seeing all the different puzzle pieces that were falling into place. You know even with my with my with my children, my boy who had struggled with addiction he he honestly was so fortunate and so blessed to have fallen into a career that was perfect for him. We all thought he would be the guy sitting on the couch you know, drinking beer and smoking and wouldn't wouldn't really have a direction in his life. However, he's he's very content and he's he's very, he's such a different human being now. And I don't want to say it's due to just because of me because it's not it's not about what I did are anything that I did. It's about you know, our Lord and Savior pursuing the relationship with us, all of us. I think that that's really powerful and I I really get what you say because I do believe that the divine pursues as a practicing Buddhist. I you know, I grew up in the West America, Fort Lauderdale, Florida actually, like yes native. And I've always been very agnostic, but I've always been questioning, curious. You know, when I was young, I had a friend who was Jewish. I went to her button, it went to synagogue a couple of times, we had a neighbor behind who was Presbyterian. And when I went to bookstores or whatever, as I got older, it was all about the Eastern philosophies. For some reason that will always pull me in. And one of the things that I have done over the years is even though I practice Buddhism, I still talk with God. Like, for me, the divine energy of the universe. I know as God because of how I was raised. It's kind of it's wired into me for whatever reason. And so I can totally appreciate what you say about like, the Divine is there God is there calling you speaking to you. The question is what has you actually listen? When I wrote the book, hate your way to happiness? It's funny because the the book is actually in. I recorded the book on my iPhone. I would be walking and just record five to 10 minutes of thoughts, feelings, upset, whatever was going on for me in the moment whether I was crying, sobbing or laughing hysterically, or whatever. I recorded those and I transcribed them and I was encouraged to leave it in that format. One of the aspects of real beauty and power was the how the book started. Because I was, I was in a really challenging spot because like you say, the personal development is fantastic. But then when you're not in the class or the course or whatever anymore, you don't have that same the, the artificial energy lift, it's it's fantastic, but it's like, we're we're given fish, but we're not taught how to fish. It almost. So here I am, in this space where I was just like having this conversation with God. going you know, I don't know what you want me to do, but this this shit is not working for me. And you need to give me some specific direct guidance because I I'm, I'm flailing and it was 10 days later. That my life coach was I was complaining as you say about something and I, you know, blah, blah, blah. She says, Well, you know, why don't you just hate your way to happiness, Aaron, and I'm like, wait, it's both. In that moment. I knew that that phrase was divinely inspired and meant for something more. How did you discover that it was that door that needed to be opened? Because I hear that you're going through the process of life. But then all of a sudden you turn on a dime, but I don't hear and I'm asking because there might be somebody who's listening. Who thinks well, that's all great for her. I don't know what the heck she's talking about. And it's kind of like, if somebody can understand, like, let me start over. I was watching a YouTube video yesterday. And what this person was saying was, you're watching this video and you you see that there are 1000s of other people that are watching this video as well. But I want you to understand that this video is meant for you. For you, the one who's asking who me and I think it's important part of the reason why I do this podcast is because I want to touch those people who are having trouble finding that life raft that that life preserver Shall we today. So is there like was there a person who asked you to church? What was the moment was there a person who introduced you Was there a catalyst that had you pursue this? What? What was it? Yes, there's something Yes, there was Thank you. Absolutely. So my daughter in law my son in his girlfriend about two years ago, were pregnant with you know, with a first child and she had she was a little Instagram model just you know all about her looks and always you know, having to do the poses. You know, Miami can be a lot of lot of places. Just Miami but so she was very much in the world, as we'd say like she and she had a a huge shift in her. They I guess they broke up for for a little bit and was going through a difficult time. So there was an example there of sometimes God uses difficult things to draw as close to him. And I didn't know I didn't know that they were attending church and they've gotten back together and fast forward to like, you know, maybe six months later, they invited me to a conference of really big conference where there was churches from all around the world really, that it would come at the University of Miami and really loved the vibe. It felt like some parts of it felt like a rock concert because the music was just you know, very contemporary and uplifting. And and I felt at home. I really did. You as I mentioned earlier, I grew up in the Midwest and had attended my favorite churches, believe me, people would invite and, you know, they say in Oklahoma there's a church on every corner literally is and especially with my parents becoming Christians as I was leaving the home, my mid early 20s. You know, I definitely had my opinion about you know, it was like, I'm not going to you're not going to convert me you're not going to hit me over the head with the Bible. I'm gone. However, this was an entirely different experience. These were very genuine, real people that didn't have an agenda. It was it was about you know, worshipping. And it was about real. Life things. It wasn't it wasn't what I had ever experienced before. And so that kind of started me on my journey to wanting to know more. So I started going to church and I started going kind of here and there and testing it out and oh, I'm not gonna let them know I'm new because you know, they're gonna come, they're gonna come for me. I don't want that amount. So I always had one foot in and one foot out. But in the meantime, I was really what I was really getting for myself, was some real

Unknown: 21:14

applicable

Leslie Ann Reams: 21:16

life tools. That oddly sounded like some coursework that I had done before. I was like, what this sounds like landmark this sounds like gratitude training. How can this be it's straight out of the Bible, you know? So I was curious and then I think it was a few few months later, I decided to watch The Passion of the Christ. And I'd seen it before when it first came out. You know, everybody went to go see it because it was a he was very much in the media and a lot of controversy around it and and yeah, it was brutal. And I got it, you know, Jesus died for us and all that. However, when I watched it that time, I didn't anticipate I didn't anticipate how it would take a hold of me. And literally, it went from my head to my heart. I, I got it. It was like, Oh, my gosh, and that's, that's the moment that I felt like, my eyes were clear. I'm getting goosebumps as I'm saying, because I'm reliving it. I wept like a baby. I wept like a baby watching that. Because not because of the pain. I saw this after this, you know, realization that happened to Jesus, but it was like it's right here in front of me this whole time. God, this is what you've been trying to tell me. And I couldn't see it and you know, I am worthy. I am. You know, God by God's grace. You know, I'm a sinner. We're all sinners. We all have done things of course. And, you know, one part we can never be worthy of what he sacrifice. So what God came to earth as a human in the form of Jesus, but he's given us His grace. He wants a relationship with us. And in that moment, is when I gave my life to God, honestly, gave my life to Christ and started praying regularly and I had a just a different desire than I had before. I didn't you know, yeah, I used to go out and live kind of a pretty wild you know, fun life. You know, after I got a divorce is like, Hey, this is time let's get out there and put up with some girlfriends and I just said that desire wasn't there. A I felt fulfillment in other ways. I felt I felt fulfillment in seeking and to understand and it it led me to read the Bible. And I go on that year, to read the Bible, the entire Bible in a year. And yeah, it was. It was quite an experience because I could it changed me every day. It changed. I found a program online and it was super simple. It gave me a list. You know, you're gonna read this today. It was it was easy. But what I found that changed for me and that that year, was I just, I went from being a grumpy old lady. You know, when I felt like I was becoming too loving humanity, loving people seeing seeing people through the eyes of Christ. And it's the Bible is a love story to mankind. And, you know, Jesus basically says, Watch how I love people and do the same. And it has freed me I've experienced a sense of freedom. And peace that I couldn't explain. And friends of mine who have known me for years would say something's different about you. You're so you're so you seem so peaceful. You seem so ease at ease. And it obviously when I wanted to tell them why because it if if if I feel this great. I think everybody should.

Erin Currin: 25:34

Yeah, it's especially with people that you've been around because you know, when you do things like landmark there are some people who they pop, so to speak. I remember when I first did my landmark forum, it's like, oh, look, there are people popping all around the room. And there are some people who just pop and get it and run with it. And then there's the rest of us, which is probably 80% And you go back and you keep doing the quarters, and it keeps reminding you Yeah, but what I hear your shift your transformation was you found something that you can connect with, where it was framed in such a way that you were able to give up all of the things that had you not be at peace

Leslie Ann Reams: 26:25

exists. Exactly. And I'd like to list them for you if I could. Yeah, they because the things that that I gave up, that have made the most I mean, I can go on forever about all the ways that has impacted impacted my life. However, I gave up anxiety. It gave up comparison, I didn't realize how much I compared myself to others. There's, there's scripture for that I anytime it kind of sneaks back in all I have to do is read that scripture and it disappears like that. Or even just remember it which I'm in my second year of reading Bible again in a in a year, and it's easier to do. I gave up self doubt gave up fear. I gave up control. One of the biggest things I gave up thinking that it was up to me like why am I not manifesting this? Why am I you know, I know how to do it. I'm doing the steps. I got the Ivanhoe a card somewhere where I'd written down, you know the steps of manifestation. Why what's wrong with me that I can't just do that? What's wrong with me? And then I gave that up to God, I surrender that to him. And lo and behold, everything fell into place. Like I had to reroute my house, for example. And where I was before, this transformation was fully full of doubt. I'd never owned anything and never owned a home before. I didn't know how to do it. Ever but I'm gonna get screwed over because Roofers in Miami are kind of known for that. You know, I had all of this going on. And literally the day I want to say that I gave that to God, and I prayed and I said, Lord, just take this. You know, I give this to you wholeheartedly. And everything fell into place. I even had a roofer who I finally chose and I, first of all, I prayed that God send me somebody who's going to do right by me, and to eliminate my fear. And, you know, I just prayed many different ways on that. And, you know, even my roofer said, Oh, my God, I don't know how this happened. It never happens this way in the city. They don't walk over the same day and hand over their approval, but that just happened. Like I said, Well, honey, it's prayer. Told them and so I have a lot of people praying for me, and I've been praying for it. And it just never surprised me how quickly things moved. I was I was bumping heads with my association. This was before I finally surrendered it to God. And like literally three months in a row, this whole process took a year but it wasn't until I surrendered it wholeheartedly. That it it moved, moved, moved, moved, moved even down to my river telling me you just got the best crew that we have. So that's that's awesome. It's a wonderful, he's gonna they're gonna rip everything off and then they're gonna come back in two weeks and put it back on, you know, put on new titles. And then the second time around, he says, this is the strangest thing you you got the best crew. Again, this doesn't happen. So it feels so good to know that it's not in my doing that there's something that I didn't do or something I'm supposed to do. Or I gotta read another book. I need to you know, ask this person I need to you know, I need to I need to I need to, that's how I was living my life. I have a stack of books of every self help. New Earth of the the secret. I mean, you name him I had him. You know, Napoleon Hill, all of them. Joe Dispenza supernatural all of them. And the only book that I need is the Bible on the site. Because even in here there was a scripture about your roof. I was when I read that I was blown away. How if you'd make 10 your roof and then I'm going through an issue with like, with molds, I don't think I have mold but there's a good possibility of is infinitely Old Testament. You know, God talks about mold and how to what it's like, how can this be? Every single thing in life is in that book. And I'm just I'm blown away. I'm blown away. How you know, everything, everything's in there, and I've gotten rid of all my books, because honestly, I don't need them. I don't need to try. I don't need to try to fix it. That's what I was trying to do with every course that I took with every book that I read with every Okay, I gotta jump on to this, this book club because they're, they're, you know, they're going to help me find the answer to it. No, it became very simple. Well,

Erin Currin: 31:35

and what you're pointing to is three pathways. You remember back in the day when you did your introduction to the landmark forum. I think they also do the circle in the landmark forum where you you know what, you know, you know what

Leslie Ann Reams: 31:52

you don't know what you don't don't know what to don't know, the biggest part

Erin Currin: 31:57

of the pie. And you're sitting there looking at it going Yeah, but I remember one of the seminars, I was on a production team with one of the seminars at one point. And we all went out to dinner afterwards and the seminar leader looked at me and said, you know, Aaron, really all you got to do is give up that one thing that you're holding on to and then it's all going to fall into place. And as you're going through the list of the things that you've given up the anxiety, the comparison, the self doubt, the fear, the control, those are all of the things that like that's my will be don't take that away from and and in the last two years, I'd say I've been doing a lot of integration of a lot of the programs that I've been through because I too have spent far too much money to mention on those personal development programs seeking the next and the next and the next and at the beginning of last year, I heard the insanity of that thought that there was something else for me to do and most of it was slowed down. And another aspect of it was to really recognize that it's not just me, I create most of the anxiety and most of the challenges and most of the issues because I'm acting like I'm the only one I'm broken. That stuff doesn't work on me but also the cavalry isn't coming. There is no one else I have to know everything. And when I think back to that big part of the pie that's a you don't know what you don't know. That can be really anxiety inducing. When you don't know Chinese you know. Aeronautical Engineering, you don't know how to how to make your refrigerator run or your air conditioner work or fix your roof. Now you might be able to do it on the level but like we're taught that we should be able to know and do it all I am I've been friends with a few people who have taught in elementary school and just the way that I would watch them deal with it is fascinating because in elementary school, we're not put together to play we're set at desks and we're set separate and we're taught that we need to figure out how to learn this and take the test all on our own. There's no community, there's no encouragement, you only get to talk to each other and play when you're at lunch or at recess. And that's it. And I think that a lot of this kind of thinking when you hold the community out of people's training and education when you when you leave someone to think that they are the only person that they can rely on and it's such a subtle thing that we know we're doing it it's kind of like you know, on the one hand telling a child stranger danger. Don't get into the car with people that you don't know. Yes, that's sage advice. But when you tell people that every single person in the world is a stranger at what point does that lock release out? What point is that command supposed to let go and it's okay to talk to people that you don't know. How do you get to expand your social circle? If the rule is strange people are dangerous to you. How do you get to know I don't have a lo que let me rephrase that, because that's a complaint that was about to start. I would I would have this belief that I don't have anybody that I could call it 3am I'm sure if I called somebody at 3am they would answer the phone. But I make up that that would be an annoyance and a bother and so I couldn't wouldn't shouldn't do that kind of thing. And as a divorced woman, alone with two cats, yes. You can pick the stereotype of

Leslie Ann Reams: 36:12

me too. Called Love.

Erin Currin: 36:16

I get to put me first and I get to figure out who I am. And like you say there are things that are more important. But at the same time, there also is a truth to that. It's like if somebody breaks into my home in the middle of the night, I am killing it. But it's not just me when I'm able to expand my experience beyond what I know to be this body and when I recognize that there is a divine force something higher that I can call upon to help shoulder the weight to carry that burden. And that really I hear is what you're pointing to. So I think that that's fantastic because that gets really super clear. Like what specifically did you do well you dropped a whole lot of baggage, including complaints. Because complaining is you know, really one of those big ones gumming up the works talking about people in things that you don't understand you have no idea what the backstory is you you couldn't possibly hope to know everything about this person or that situation that led up to it being this way. And yet I'm going to be arrogant enough to assume that I know. And I'm right, and that you should just get the hell out of my way and leave me alone.

Leslie Ann Reams: 37:52

Well, I'm here to tell you that you know what I what I hear in that for myself is and I can I can relate because I used to operate this way was first of all, so much responsibility to think that we were supposed to do it and I I should be able to do it for crying out loud. So much responsibility, and so much loneliness the same time. And I don't think anybody should have to feel lonely. We can be alone. Sure, I can be alone. But I'm not lonely because I have a heavenly Father who loves me and who has died for me. And I can turn to a three o'clock in the morning and feel that sense of security that I've never felt before. And know that yeah, that things can happen somebody could break into my home. But once I surrender to God's will, if there's if that's his will not that I you know, he wants to do bad things but you know, have bad things happen to us. But when we understand that, even through difficulties, and through horrible experiences, God's you know there for us and you

Unknown: 39:15

always will be.

Leslie Ann Reams: 39:18

And I, you know, I'm still what's referred to as is a baby Christian, I'm learning. I don't really know. You know, I'm not a theologian. I don't know Scripture very well. But what I do know is how it has impacted my life. Every single day. And the access that I have like that. Whenever I feel something Come on, you know, all I do is turn to God. And and it disappears. I didn't have to I didn't have to find my book of work. What did it say again that I you know, I'm supposed to remember and and all of that and I don't have that loneliness. Yes, I you know, I'm a single woman would like to be in relationship and I also know that if it's God's will, it will happen. And he wants us as abundantly and exceedingly it says that in the Bible, and I believe that and it might it might not be at this moment, but I know he will bless me with that. When it is his time and because of that I don't carry the angst, the anxiety that what am I doing wrong? It's just not there. And you want to talk about freedom and peace. In this crazy world that we're in today, you know, you don't know if the aliens are coming or if we're going to be new. Do you know what I mean? And and I don't have anything about those things because I know my and where my answers are. And I'm just kind of very blessed that I get to live in this time that to see all this you know, so many things that are falling apart and so many ways that we could you know perish tomorrow and all that and I'm like I'm ready I mean you know, I don't I don't mind I'm ready to go to heaven I'm also I just feel so like I've lived my unfulfilled and I God wants me to be here longer. You know then I would love to be here longer because there's so much work to do and if so many you know people to you know, like make a difference for even if it's not just my children and their lives. I think that's that's really the My biggest takeaway from my experience is the freedom and the peace and the joy and to be able to handle anything and everything. You know, when I first got a divorce, I didn't know how people functions. I didn't I was like, how do you figure out how much you're supposed to put away and say, I don't know how to do this. I don't even know I didn't know how to pay bills. I didn't know what the price of gas was. They just didn't have to live in that you know, I didn't need to know those things. And now you know if there's anything that I don't know totally cool with it, because I understand that it's not I'm not supposed to do it all I surrender it and it happens. It's the craziest thing in the world. Time and time again. Surrender and it happens. I think that that's

Erin Currin: 42:23

absolutely brilliant because, you know, if you think about the law of attraction, it's so when you're able to just relax and feel grateful. Knowing that the thing is already done. You've given your lunch order to the waiter, it's on its way you don't have to sweat until the sandwich is brought to you. Right? When you think about Einstein saying that matter and energy are neither created nor destroyed. Like it's all just this big mix of energy and material and the more they study quantum physics and string theory, all of it is just shaping and reshaping and there's more than there is something in the universe. And it's such a magical setup that none of us could ever hope to understand. So divinely orchestrated, if you will correct my personal view. And it's challenging sometimes. Because like, you see all this stuff on the news, and it's like, are we going to be nude? Are the aliens gonna come? I love the way you said that. But it's true. It's like oh, is COVID gonna get us is Putin gonna get us is you know, Biden gonna get us it's gonna get us is, you know, are the gays coming for us with the Christians coming for us? Like, you know, whatever camp you happen to be in and I say both sides because I don't want to know absolutely. But the truth of the matter is for me, if I'm listening to my Buddhist teachings, if I'm understanding law of attraction, I have a dear friend who is a very devout Christian, not like a churchy Christian, but like he actually reads the Bible, and lives the teachings. It's like, there's a certain kind of person who just always seems to be calm and peaceful. And it's because that certain kind of person gets how the game is played, doesn't necessarily understand why the moves that are being made are being made, but knows that if I don't touch the tar baby, then I'm not gonna get caught up in it. And I what, what I hear you pointing to with this piece, you know, because it's like, there is there is a possibility of somebody listening to this kind of a podcast and going oh, there she goes. But the truth of the matter is, sigh it's scientifically provable, that we're behaving about this has merit. If I'm not being upset, and anxious and freaked out and complaining about things all of the time, that I'm less likely to attract that stuff into my circle, just because like there are body language experts who say, even though we don't know how we do it, a thief is always going to find the best person to steal from based on the body language. The person who gets raped isn't going to be a target because they're behaving in a particular way. They're more of a prey to a predator than somebody who has a certain level of confidence or an air of calm. And so like, for for skeptics, it like, look further into this kind of a thing because there is a truth to it. The people who are able to ascend the ladder and achieve major accomplishments or live a super fulfilling life, generally speaking, recognize the difference between the circle of concern and the circle of control and know how to balance the two out such that they're not trying to carry too many trays, that they got no business trying to carry in the first place.

Leslie Ann Reams: 46:35

Yeah, well, I think what you're saying is, is very valuable in a lot of aspects. You know, the science behind it behind science. Behind the law of attraction, if you will, you know, like to pose the question of like, where we're, or make the suggestion that that is divinely created? Well, a lot of it's

Erin Currin: 47:01

created by the Divine then the Divine is the one who created science in the first place. Exactly. It would make sense. Exactly, exactly. There are a lot of people I see what you're saying there are many people who want to try to separate science from faith. And you know, toward the end of his life, Einstein started to see that separation of those two things was insane. No, because they're, you know, in mainstream Buddhism. How do I say this? We chant a mantra, and one of the words in the mantra is meal Hall. And Yoho means meal is the mystical aspect and how is the physical aspects. So meal and hoe are two sides of the same coin. How could be like I'm alive, this is my body and yo could be after I pass through the gateway. On the other side. The two aspects work together mystically because it can't be comprehended. X. Divine. It's too vast for any one of us to really get. And so like what you're pointing to is, there's a trap when you say I can scientifically explain this because once I get to the point where I can't scientifically explain it anymore, I want to get to the curb, walk away, and I hear that you've found a great benefit in allowing yourself to be with things that even though you can't explain it, you can still be at peace with it. Is that Yeah,

Leslie Ann Reams: 48:47

I think, for me, that's still very conceptual. Which is fine, which is great. I mean, we got to that's where we all start is trying to figure out I think, I think it's that plus faith. And faith is is you know, that knowing what we can't see, you know, it's it's the there's a Bible verse about it actually, I really nice if I can find it real quick because it's faith is the assurance of things hoped for and the conviction of things not seen. So you know, law of attraction is we can we can conceptualize it, and we can definitely use that. However, it's no it's the knowing of it deep in our hearts of why for me, it's it's because of God it's it's it's because you know, he created us. I

Erin Currin: 49:52

can really appreciate what you say once you once you accept faith, then there's no need for any other questions. One of the things that I've always loved about Nichiren Buddhism is there's an allowance for a healthy skepticism. Not because it's like the more faith you have, the farther you're able to travel, because the more faith you have the less load you're carrying, because you recognize what what you have come to see, which is when I hand things over to God when I surrender when I allow myself to be supported, then there isn't a doubt. And I totally get that. I faith is one of those kinds of things where it's not I don't believe that it's like you have it or you don't I think that it's something that can be cultivated. Over time. And it's also not something that just sort of slowly ticks up. It's like you're talking about Revelation, there are certain inexplicable experiences that I'm sure you've had that you just Okay, great. I get it. Now, no set. Absolutely. And like I what I was hearing you say earlier, is anytime that you're starting to go down that path of doubt, or you're starting to have any kinds of those fears, you're reaching back out to the Bible, and you're finding those passages that support or remind you of what it was that had you be able to walk so deeply in faith before. Would that be accurate?

Leslie Ann Reams: 51:50

To some degree? Yes, there's times where I need I need to see the verse and there's other times that I just remember, not particularly word for word, but that God tells us the essence of it. Exactly. And and it vanishes. So it's always it's always available. It's always available. It's like having, you know, a red line phone like they have in the White House. You know, before you pick up the phone, the red phone and you have direct access to God because God wants that relationship. Just like you know, I have two children who are in their mid 20s. And they're of course they're living their lives. I still want that connection, that relationship with them are God wants that as well

Erin Currin: 52:34

with all of us. Because it created us. That's beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. So, is there anything that like we've been a lot of places is there anything else that you wanted to touch on or circle back to or anything that you would like to leave our audience with? I think

Leslie Ann Reams: 52:58

what I would like to leave our audience, your audience with is that God loves us loves all of us, and he just wants to know you. So all there is to do is to is to speak to him. cultivate a relationship. He will He will draw close to you and you don't have to visit a church. It doesn't have to be any. Any church that teaches the Bible really teaches scripture and to be involved. This is a beautiful community of people. It's so feels so pure. And so every church has its issues, of course, religion religious because its manmade, has its issues as human human involvement in something that is divine. It's always going to be something come up but just see, seek the face of God and He will. He will come close to you.

Erin Currin: 54:07

Beautiful, well said. Well, it has been fun and amazing and fascinating to be chatting about. Your experience. Thank you so much for sharing so much of yourself and so generously.

Leslie Ann Reams: 54:23

It's been my pleasure. I've really enjoyed it.

Erin Currin: 54:26

Thank you for having me. You're very welcome. So this is Aaron Curran. We have been talking about what it means to live a fulfilling life. The podcast is the secret of my success. Thank you so much for joining us for another fascinating conversation and we look forward to seeing you